02-14-2015, 03:05 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2015, 03:06 AM by aaroninmaine.)
OH, SQUINTY4E you make me laugh and my sides ache. Or, maybe the pain is because it's lunch time.
Can't use traditional quoting blocks with this response, sorry, but I've marked who is speaking.
I wrote: "I've seen videos from every year of Savatage right through Damond and they put on a basic rock show no different than any other band. I don't see them recreating any classical rock concert light show ever. Musically they might, but I've yet to find a Savatage video showing them with a show even close to the Who or Genesis."
You responded: "From what I've seen they packed in as much as the venue size and budget would allow. No, they didn't have Floyd-like, but they were playing much smaller places. However, they didn't have just a handful of par-cans - they brought as much as they could for the venue size. If they could have brought more, they would have from what I've been told."
First, if you look at old Genesis videos they are playing venues far smaller than what Sava played at their best. They were doing crazy light shows that have gone down in the history books. I would think if they could do it in a far smaller space and a far smaller budget, would Sava? While one would also think that the lights shows of Sava, if they were as big as you imply, would have made them far more famous. Funny, I've never heard that as part of their reputation and one would think they would be mentioned more in the history books if they were really going the distance.
But, you have confused me now.
Originally you wrote: "I think, and have talked at length with people inside and outside the organization, that where they are now with the production was always the plan, it's just it wouldn't fit logistically and financially wasn't viable in the first 5 years of touring."
To which came my apply above.
Now you write: "If they could have brought more, they would have from what I've been told."
You seem to be misquoting yourself and changing things around to make a point. Have you thought of a political career? Or, maybe a lawyer? I just applied to law school. I'd be happy to help you study for the test. I actually passed with an above average grade with only 3 weeks of study. We'll see if I get in.
But, note, you say in another post you've talked to 10+ in TSO in formal interviews. Your second quote is talking about the plan for Sava. You've been asking them about the early days of Sava, too? But, none of them were in the band? So, that means you've talked to TSO people who in heresay are telling you what Sava wanted. Only Jon was there in the beginning and would know. Have you interviewed him? How did you do that? I've tired to contact him a few times when I interviewed Damond (who strangely, along with interviews with Zak and Alex didn't talk about the lighting shows Sava had --- modesty perhaps?)
(If you want to be a lawyer, you know heresay isn't welcomed evidence usually.)
While you say in the first 5 years of touring. You mean TSO? But, the second quote implies in the first 5 years of Sava - aka pre-Paul. Which is it?
You originally wrote: "Most of the band and management grew up inspired by the largest shows of the time: Kiss, Floyd, the Who, Genesis, ELP, etc. Those shows were the biggest productions of their time and the plan was always to build up to recreate that. Savatage had that at their height as well, they didn't keep it minimal."
I have seen many videos of Sava at their height --- which would be EXACTLY WHEN??? --- and they have the same lighting rig as any band THEIR size, no different than Megadeth who have a minimal set-up. I'm shocked that a band that minimal hits and were not a major mover and shaker would have a lighting rig beyond their peers and not become famous, as I already mentioned.
But, I'm more interested in what you call their height. Under Criss when him and Jon were sleeping on sofas and Jon was writing for other artists as the band wasn't making it? Under Alex when Jon left? After Criss died? After their ONE U.S. chart-topping hit at #83? Or, after their 3 albums that landed in the Billboard bottom 200? Under Al when the band was given one last chance by the label? Post-TSO under Damond when the band was on the way out? Their height is a not very high. If you can find a youtube video of when they "didn't keep it minimal" I would love to see it.
Further, many music clubs supply the lights and a band adds to it. Are you implying that Sava had a complete lighting gig and everything in every video in every club belongs to them?
I think SAVAGEDREAMS agrees with me: "what are these big productions you keep mentioning about savatage? they barely made enough money to even stay on the road, lol." When Al came along DEAD WINTER DEAD was the the make or break album from TSO. Paul said at the time he was putting everything in it as he expected to be dropped from the label. That's how successful they were. Not financially or commercially, or at least not domestically and most labels don't want to work with U.S. bands that are more successful abroad.
Can't use traditional quoting blocks with this response, sorry, but I've marked who is speaking.
I wrote: "I've seen videos from every year of Savatage right through Damond and they put on a basic rock show no different than any other band. I don't see them recreating any classical rock concert light show ever. Musically they might, but I've yet to find a Savatage video showing them with a show even close to the Who or Genesis."
You responded: "From what I've seen they packed in as much as the venue size and budget would allow. No, they didn't have Floyd-like, but they were playing much smaller places. However, they didn't have just a handful of par-cans - they brought as much as they could for the venue size. If they could have brought more, they would have from what I've been told."
First, if you look at old Genesis videos they are playing venues far smaller than what Sava played at their best. They were doing crazy light shows that have gone down in the history books. I would think if they could do it in a far smaller space and a far smaller budget, would Sava? While one would also think that the lights shows of Sava, if they were as big as you imply, would have made them far more famous. Funny, I've never heard that as part of their reputation and one would think they would be mentioned more in the history books if they were really going the distance.
But, you have confused me now.
Originally you wrote: "I think, and have talked at length with people inside and outside the organization, that where they are now with the production was always the plan, it's just it wouldn't fit logistically and financially wasn't viable in the first 5 years of touring."
To which came my apply above.
Now you write: "If they could have brought more, they would have from what I've been told."
You seem to be misquoting yourself and changing things around to make a point. Have you thought of a political career? Or, maybe a lawyer? I just applied to law school. I'd be happy to help you study for the test. I actually passed with an above average grade with only 3 weeks of study. We'll see if I get in.
But, note, you say in another post you've talked to 10+ in TSO in formal interviews. Your second quote is talking about the plan for Sava. You've been asking them about the early days of Sava, too? But, none of them were in the band? So, that means you've talked to TSO people who in heresay are telling you what Sava wanted. Only Jon was there in the beginning and would know. Have you interviewed him? How did you do that? I've tired to contact him a few times when I interviewed Damond (who strangely, along with interviews with Zak and Alex didn't talk about the lighting shows Sava had --- modesty perhaps?)
(If you want to be a lawyer, you know heresay isn't welcomed evidence usually.)
While you say in the first 5 years of touring. You mean TSO? But, the second quote implies in the first 5 years of Sava - aka pre-Paul. Which is it?
You originally wrote: "Most of the band and management grew up inspired by the largest shows of the time: Kiss, Floyd, the Who, Genesis, ELP, etc. Those shows were the biggest productions of their time and the plan was always to build up to recreate that. Savatage had that at their height as well, they didn't keep it minimal."
I have seen many videos of Sava at their height --- which would be EXACTLY WHEN??? --- and they have the same lighting rig as any band THEIR size, no different than Megadeth who have a minimal set-up. I'm shocked that a band that minimal hits and were not a major mover and shaker would have a lighting rig beyond their peers and not become famous, as I already mentioned.
But, I'm more interested in what you call their height. Under Criss when him and Jon were sleeping on sofas and Jon was writing for other artists as the band wasn't making it? Under Alex when Jon left? After Criss died? After their ONE U.S. chart-topping hit at #83? Or, after their 3 albums that landed in the Billboard bottom 200? Under Al when the band was given one last chance by the label? Post-TSO under Damond when the band was on the way out? Their height is a not very high. If you can find a youtube video of when they "didn't keep it minimal" I would love to see it.
Further, many music clubs supply the lights and a band adds to it. Are you implying that Sava had a complete lighting gig and everything in every video in every club belongs to them?
I think SAVAGEDREAMS agrees with me: "what are these big productions you keep mentioning about savatage? they barely made enough money to even stay on the road, lol." When Al came along DEAD WINTER DEAD was the the make or break album from TSO. Paul said at the time he was putting everything in it as he expected to be dropped from the label. That's how successful they were. Not financially or commercially, or at least not domestically and most labels don't want to work with U.S. bands that are more successful abroad.